PROBLEM WITH REPEATING SONGS OF THE SAME GENRE

[Radio Format .network]

I am a satisfied new user except for one problem that I cannot solve. Before writing this post I even waited for the new version but the problem continues.

To test RadioBOSS, before I changed my current software, I only divided the music archive into 2 categories.

Each category has no filters. In ‘select tracks’ I chose “random”, in ‘start position’ I entered 1 and ‘number of advances ....’ is not ticked. In settings I set: 30 minutes for ‘Do not repeat artist’ and 90 minutes for ‘Do not repeat track’. Finally "Use the Last Played tag" is ticked

I reset all "Playcount" and "Last played" and generated with Playlist Generator Pro"

PROBLEM: After a few days I verify in the music library that some tracks have been played 3 times while other tracks 0 times!

The previous operation was repeated several times and always with the same problem!

QUESTION: with RadioBOSS is it possible to make it so that before playing a track of the same genre again, all the tracks of the same musical genre are played first?

attached 7 screenshots with the current configurations

thank you
P.S. I apologise for my bad English

 

[djsoft]

After a few days I verify in the music library that some tracks have been played 3 times while other tracks 0 times!

The Playlist Generator selects track in random order (as you have configured) and ensures that the track passes all defined rules/filters/constrains as defined in the settings. It does not check how many times a track was played while selecting.

You can use the Priorities feature to make it select tracks that play less more often: https://manual.djsoft.net/radioboss/en/plgen-cat3.htm

 

[Radio Format .network]

Thank you but you did not answer my question. Maybe my English is bad and I was not clear.

I don't want to use any priority and/or control which tracks play less often.

I would like to know if RadioBOSS, when no priority is set, has a configuration that allows it to play all tracks of the same genre first (randomly) and only after playing all of them, it will start playing (again randomly) a track that has already been played.
This way the result should be that, after resetting all ‘Playcount’ and ‘Last played’, after a few days I should find that each track has been played +/- once and not as now that some tracks have been played 3 times and some zero times

Thank You

 

[djsoft]

I would like to know if RadioBOSS, when no priority is set, has a configuration that allows it to play all tracks of the same genre first (randomly) and only after playing all of them, it will start playing (again randomly) a track that has already been played.

There's no such a feature. But you can get a very close result using priorities.

This way the result should be that, after resetting all ‘Playcount’ and ‘Last played’, after a few days I should find that each track has been played +/- once and not as now that some tracks have been played 3 times and some zero times

Over time this will become even. When there are 100+ runs, it'll be more or less equal.

 

[Radio Format .network]

There's no such a feature. But you can get a very close result using priorities.

Thank you for your answers.
If possible, I would like some help on how to configure the priorities to achieve the required result (before resonating a song of the same genre, play them all first) and which I have detailed in previous posts.

I take the liberty to ask because I have already tried using priorities but without success.

Thank you again

 

[djsoft]

If possible, I would like some help on how to configure the priorities to achieve the required result (before resonating a song of the same genre, play them all first) and which I have detailed in previous posts.

As mentioned above, it's not really possible to make it select all songs before selecting the same songs again. The best solution is to leave it as it is: over time the amount of times each track play will be more or less equal. If you want you can add priority rules based on playcount - increase priority for tracks that play less than average.

 

[Radio Format .network]

First, I thank you for your second response. I appreciate your professionalism.

I have let a few more days pass, as you advised “The best solution is to leave it as it is: over time the amount of times each track play will be more or less equal.” but also from the messages received from listeners complaining that they hear “the same songs over and over again”, I think you should address the problem: I give the example of a category with 327 tracks.
The maximum playcount difference is that 1 track was played 9 (nine) times and 1 track was played 0 (zero) times !!!

In addition to using RadioBOSS for a new radio station, we use other “radio automation software” to manage 11 other radio stations.
They all manage the music rotation in a way that we find much simpler by allowing 4 possible modes to be set for each row with the music genre entered in playlist:

1. played less recently
2. played less often (less Hits)
3. recently added
4. random

We use ‘played less recently’ to allow a track of the same genre to be played only after all other tracks of the same genre have been played first.
The only thing we do to have a different randomness, periodically (every 3/4 months), we reset the playcount of all tracks. In this way the order in which the tracks are played resets and a different randomness begins again, however, respecting any tracks that have been given priority.

Two questions:

1. do you think that a mode can be added in the next update that allows for categories to play a track only after all the others have been played first?
2. in the meantime and to follow your advice: where can I find directions for increasing the rotation of tracks that are played less than average by adding priority rules based on the number of plays?

Thanks again

 

[box26609]

do you think that a mode can be added in the next update that allows for categories to play a track only after all the others have been played first?

This would be super helpful. I also tend to hear the same songs playing in my teasers yet the source folder has hundreds of songs. I wonder if it's related.

 

[djsoft]

We use ‘played less recently’ to allow a track of the same genre to be played only after all other tracks of the same genre have been played first.

This is almost never possible if repeat protection rules are involved (it will have to skip the tracks to find a track that suits the rules). Also, once the order of the tracks is settled, it will repeat in same order on the next rotation, and you will have the problem, as you say

The only thing we do to have a different randomness, periodically (every 3/4 months), we reset the playcount of all tracks.

in the meantime and to follow your advice: where can I find directions for increasing the rotation of tracks that are played less than average by adding priority rules based on the number of plays?

This is done using the priority rules. Rules can be added both ways: increase priority for tracks with low playcount (less than average) and decrease priority for tracks that play more than average.

I give the example of a category with 327 tracks.

Actually this is very few tracks. That's why listeners feel that they listen the same songs over and over again.

 

[Radio Format .network]

This is almost never possible if repeat protection rules are involved (it will have to skip the tracks to find a track that suits the rules). Also, once the order of the tracks is settled, it will repeat in same order on the next rotation, and you will have the problem, as you say

You used the conditional ‘if repetition protection rules are involved’ well.
But if one sets ‘played less recently’ it means that genre has no rules and wants to play the tracks of that genre fairly

This is done using the priority rules. Rules can be added both ways: increase priority for tracks with low playcount (less than average) and decrease priority for tracks that play more than average.

This can be done by a radio station that has a music programmer who then has the time to monitor and correct the playlist every day.
A webradio using RadioBOSS can at most undertake to reset the playcount every so often.

Actually this is very few tracks. That's why listeners feel that they listen the same songs over and over again.

it is true that there are actually very few tracks, but only for one of the genres I gave the example of and which are on the playlist !!!
Listeners do not have the feeling but really listen to the same songs all the time because, as I wrote in the previous message, in the same genre there are tracks that have been played up to 9 (nine) times and others 0 (zero) times.

Dear djsoft, I have given this in a constructive and committed spirit (because I do not speak English and so explaining was also difficult for me), as I consider this to be a great limitation for a music radio station using RadioBOSS.

However, I note that this is not a problem for you and will not be solved in the next updates.

Thank you anyway for the discussion and for your time

 

[djsoft]

You used the conditional ‘if repetition protection rules are involved’ well.
But if one sets ‘played less recently’ it means that genre has no rules and wants to play the tracks of that genre fairly

The Playlist Generator always "expects" rules and filters to be enabled. Also sorting by "played less recently" = the same order each time (this problem you know about). It is a very specific case to play all tracks, in most cases radios are obliged to not repeat artists and titles.

in the same genre there are tracks that have been played up to 9 (nine) times and others 0 (zero) times.

This is without any priority rules. I suggest defining them, at first you can do with high values e.g. +40 priority for tracks played less then average, and -40 for tracks that play more than average. You will see the difference.

 

[box26609]

The frustration I'm sensing from a number of users is that they are expecting the Radioboss software to intuitively and automatically manage something as basic as the repetition rules, which, for users coming from other software, consider it something that shouldn't require too much work.

The explanations that are being suggested seem overly complex and laborious for what, to us, seems like something that should be a fairly obvious and straightforward process, considering the workload most already have. They just want the software to be more efficient at guaranteeing that all the songs in their various folders and categories get sufficient play as opposed to the same songs being inserted all the time, which defeats the point of a radio station.

Obviously we don't know what goes into configuring the software to manage this process more easily - and it might very well be harder to implement than we might imagine it to be - but it might be worth it to consider giving more attention to this issue.

 

[djsoft]

The frustration I'm sensing from a number of users is that they are expecting the Radioboss software to intuitively and automatically manage something as basic as the repetition rules, which, for users coming from other software, consider it something that shouldn't require too much work.

All rules (e.g. Do not repeat artist for X minutes), filters, constraints etc. - are applied properly.

Playlist generator is a universal solution and therefore it has lots of configuration options to allow building various playlists for different use cases and needs. You want it to work for your specific case out of the box, which is not an option because other people will have different needs.

The explanations that are being suggested seem overly complex and laborious for what

Defining the two priority rules, as suggested above, takes only 10 seconds.

 

[Guillaume]

Allow me to offer my perspective on this interesting topic.


Here's what I understand:

@Radio Format .network 's wish is to play all the music tracks in his category, knowing that a music track must be played as many times as another at the end of a reading cycle of the 327 music tracks.​

The problem encountered with RadioBOSS:

There is a track that is played 9 times and another track in the same category that is played 0 times.​

Technique used in another automation software:

Use the "least recently played track" option. This will allow him to play all the tracks in his category.​

If we use the "least recently played music track" setting:

Another problem will arise after a while, as mentioned earlier in the discussion. The tracks will play in the same order after a playback cycle of all 327 music tracks.​

And this is why a solution is being discussed: resetting the play count after 3 to 4 months. This reset will allow a playback cycle to be repeated with a different order. And so on.​

I think you should use RadioBOSS and its Playlist Generator Pro software with a more analytical approach. You should understand how it works and get the most out of it according to your needs, as it's relatively comprehensive software that appeals to a large number of users.
This doesn't mean it's more complicated. It will take a little time at first.
But ultimately, you'll get a higher-quality result and you may also save a little time.


If you don't want to use the "Priority" solution and leave your settings as is, here's a suggestion:

Analyze your "CLASSIC ROCK" category.​

How many times per hour, per day, per week is programmed in all your rotations like the "CLASSIC ROCK 2" preset?​

This will allow you to configure the "Do not repeat track" option more judiciously. The current 90-minute selection is far too short, at least for this category.

You should:

• Set a duration of 720 minutes (12 hours) if this category is used 100% in your preset and for all hours of the day. If the category is scheduled 30 times a day, you can increase it to 8640 minutes (6 days).
• Specify this longer duration in the category's "No-repeat" tab, not in the preset's "Settings" tab. This will configure the no-repeat feature for this category only, not for all categories in your preset. You will then be able to act and make more precise modifications to this category.

Obviously, this is a suggestion that will need to be adapted based on your other rules, such as the non-repeat rules.

A "Do not repeat track" duration that is too long can trigger errors. And a duration that is too short can cause more music tracks to be played than others, as in your current configuration. And that's normal, it's random.

Will some tracks be played more than others? Certainly. But with much less variation, and this will smooth out over time, as mentioned in a previous answer.

And you'll no longer need to reset your play counts.


For your information, I'm not a full-time music programmer. And I understand your concern about having a program that can work "on its own" efficiently and according to your wishes. I've found solutions using RadioBOSS (using Tags, among other things), and I think you'll find some too.

@Radio Format .network 's wish is simple. But it requires a little analysis of the situation before creating a musical program.

 

[Radio Format .network]

Thank you for your comment @Guillaume. I really appreciate it because you took the time to address the problem I highlighted with interesting advice. Thank you again but before answering in substance, allow me a premise: I started using RadioBOSS because it is the software chosen by a customer who after many years of activity decided to delegate the management of his webradio to us. Within our company, the work was delegated to me, who has also been a music programmer for 27 years (today for 12 radio stations). For music scheduling I use modules:

• EXTERNAL: Musicmaster RTC and GSelector for 2 very important FM radio stations;
• INTERNAL: such as that of RadioBOSS but also those of OmniPlayer, PlayoutONE, MBradio and SEND broadcasting

I could also have told the customer to change software to one that I already know and which, moreover, also offers a service for importing and converting the database but, as I like to learn about new things, I chose instead to use (and learn how to use) RadioBOSS. So much so that I also wanted to use it for another new customer who has very bad automation software, but as it is not possible to import and convert other people's databases with RadioBOSS, I had to make different choices.

I've made this premise only to tell you that I have a bit of experience and therefore know what a radio needs, what other ‘radio automation software’ offers and that I am well predisposed towards RadioBOSS

For the sake of completeness, I would also add, between the premises, that for the same radio station that is the subject of the problem, with RadioBOSS I also use other music categories in the Playlist that have at least 1,000 tracks and for which categories I have set up priority management.

That said, in agreeing with what you have written, allow me to disagree only with one concept, an important one, which @djsoft had also reiterated and which you expressed with the following sentence: Will some tracks be played more than others? Certainly. But with much less variation, and this will smooth out over time, as mentioned in a previous answer
In my opinion, first and foremost, it is the ‘radio automation’ software that must be able to allow what the user needs, and not the user to adapt to how the owner of the software has decided his product should work.
Which might also be understandable, if, however, a solution is also given for the user's need.
Specifically, if for programming requirements, the user needs to have the tracks in a category played equally, the automation software should ALSO allow this possibility (as is also offered by other radio automation software, at least among those I use).
This possibility is even more necessary if in a category of 100 or 1000 tracks, the current result (with the playcount set to zero and no priority set) is that one track has been played 9 times and another zero.

Finally, on this subject, excuse me but the answer of ‘wait for the rotation to stabilise’, I think is not acceptable, both for the listeners and for the eventual customer/publisher who has in fact pointed out to me that for the whole of last week the music rotation has been very bad and I can't answer him to wait for RadioBOSS to stabilise the rotation!

Thanks again @Guillaume and as I don't speak English, I hope Deepl has translated my pansier correctly

 

[djsoft]

Specifically, if for programming requirements, the user needs to have the tracks in a category played equally, the automation software should ALSO allow this possibility (as is also offered by other radio automation software, at least among those I use).

Actually, I think that would be possible to add - starting with 7.1 the Playlist Generator already has three selection options, two Random options and one In Order. A new one called e.g. Shuffle may be introduced, that will do the following: shuffle tracks, select them one by one. Once all selected, shuffle again, repeat. This will only work if no repeat protection rules are defined though. What do you think?

I think is not acceptable, both for the listeners and for the eventual customer/publisher who has in fact pointed out to me that for the whole of last week the music rotation has been very bad

For now I really think priority rules should be used.

 

[Radio Format .network]

In realtà, penso che sarebbe possibile aggiungerlo: a partire dalla versione 7.1, il generatore di playlist ha già tre opzioni di selezione, due casuali e una in ordine. Potrebbe essere introdotto un nuovo generatore chiamato, ad esempio, Shuffle, che eseguirà le seguenti operazioni: riproduce in ordine casuale le tracce, le seleziona una alla volta. Una volta selezionate tutte, riproduce di nuovo in ordine casuale, quindi ripete. Questo funzionerà solo se non sono definite regole di protezione dalla ripetizione. Che ne pensi?

I think it is a very good idea. Congratulations.

For now I really think priority rules should be used.

I understand and respect

 

[Radio Format .network]

Actually, I think that would be possible to add - starting with 7.1 the Playlist Generator already has three selection options, two Random options and one In Order. A new one called e.g. Shuffle may be introduced, that will do the following: shuffle tracks, select them one by one. Once all selected, shuffle again, repeat. This will only work if no repeat protection rules are defined though. What do you think?


For now I really think priority rules should be used.

and in any case I have never written that one should NOT use priority rules.
Thank you for your helpfulness

 

[djsoft]

I think it is a very good idea. Congratulations.

This will be added in the next major update I guess.

 

[Radio Format .network]

Immagino che questa funzionalità verrà aggiunta nel prossimo aggiornamento importante.

Thank You